Scott King joins Amy-Rose Goodey on The House is Digital for a conversation on telecommunications, digital identity and the infrastructure powering a connected world.
As Founder and CEO of Zapme, Scott shares his vision for a global communications platform that combines borderless phone numbers, eSIM connectivity, decentralised social networking and digital payments into a single ecosystem.
The discussion explores digital identity, global connectivity, telecommunications regulation, decentralised infrastructure and how emerging technologies are reshaping the way people communicate, work and transact across borders.
A fascinating conversation on innovation, connectivity and the future of digital communications.
speaker-0: Welcome. Good to be.
speaker-1: So we are talking about a global Australian founded telco. And you can talk about why that’s innovative shortly. Yeah. ⁓ and also the way that you have disrupted the social media platform idea and what you’re what you’re building there. So I want to start with ⁓ Zapme ⁓ and why you you have disrupted the telco industry, what you’re doing at Zapmi and what problems you you you’re sort of solving. And can I just say for the record, telco is a foundational infrastructure layer of the digital economy. The way that our telcos innovate themselves, it in my view, hasn’t evolved as fast as it could have. and it’s perhaps it’s it’s overregulated or there’s there’s not a lot of room to move. ⁓ and you are global now. And so you’ve obviously seen in different jurisdictions ways to to build out something that is world first. So let’s go back to the question. What are you building?
speaker-0: Well, it’s interesting though there was a few things in what you just said then. And ⁓ one of the ones that ⁓ captured me was the actual ⁓ telco word that I think people think are phone numbers, a phone numbers, a phone number. ⁓ I I I I think we just had that conversation earlier about that we get this number and it’s just I call you, you call me, we get some SMSs, and that’s all it really is. But it’s really not. It’s fundamentally your identity. Mm-hmm. You know, and that’s what was interesting. And the reasons that me came about was simply that, that when I left Australia, my family and I, we went overseas to Europe and we went and lived in Switzerland and we were traveling back and forth for business. I was consulting for different organizations. And I decided we were going for a year. And if we had paid the international fee daily on four numbers, it was going to cost me twelve thousand bucks for the year. So we said, ⁓ we don’t need our numbers. We just get new ones when we’re over there. And then as soon as we arrive, We were like, ⁓ the nightmare started to happen. We’d be in Switzerland or Sweden or Denmark or England and every time I wanted to do something, it was connected back to a bank account or a social that data. So I couldn’t get any OTPs. So it was just really like ⁓ inconvenient. And so I I did what everyone does does. I started to buy SIM cards and numbers in each country. And then I used to tape them to my passport and then I would go to the next country and swap them in, swap them out.
speaker-1: And the dog.
speaker-0: ⁓ and then the real and then COVID happened and they were all dead overnight. So it meant none of the numbers worked and only the one number from Switzerland did. So then I had to every time I wanted to do something, I had to go back and email, say, a social media platform or a bank and say, hey, this is my new number. So it became a a nightmare, really. ⁓ and that’s what the genesis of sort of Zapme started. I went, Well, why is it that my Australian number at the time just can’t work anywhere? And why am I paying these large fees? Why am I paying these international fees? And Why is there no global telco? And that was a big one. I remember, I remember the day just sitting down there, Lake Lucerne, Switzerland, and looking at the ⁓ lake and I thought, why is there no global telco out there where I can have a number, an Australian number, a Switzerland number, an English number, whatever number I like, and just be anywhere in the world and have the freedom to make a phone call and receive a phone call.
speaker-1: So that is essentially the epitome of a global digital economy. The interaction anywhere in the world. The the ability to connect with anyone, and have and retain your identity. Because a lot of the time your identity is when you log in. Do you want to log in with your phone number? Yeah. Do you want to log in with your social media? Th these ⁓ I think we take it for granted.
speaker-0: It’s actually the largest. Do you know it’s it’s the largest identifier in the world over passports, driver’s license, ⁓ email. It is the one core thing that is wanted for your identity globally. And we forget that. It’s such a protected I mean we we put our passport in the safe and her driver’s license in the wallet, but our number is really the thing that get you know, if you have fraud, they want your number. If your OTP I’m flying here today, I’ve had five OTPs and three messages all around my number. And people just take it for granted that it’s ⁓ their sovereign right to have one, but it’s really your identity.
speaker-1: It a hundred percent is. So if we let’s talk about Zapme then. T I really want to understand people are still, and I do, if I go overseas, it’s e sometimes I just buy a phone because it comes with a SIM card, it’s easier to do and this is this is the international phone. So can you take us through when you go overseas? Yes. How do you still retain your ID? ⁓ how how okay, how does Zapme work?
speaker-0: Okay, so Zapme is a communications platform by core. And the reason we started with communications, we’ll get into all the other good stuff afterwards, but the one thing we do every day is phone, video, text, message, ⁓ call every single day. So we said that’s going to be the core function of Zapme. So how it works is our Text Act base is basically allows you to have multiple numbers ⁓ which work anywhere in the world. on one application. So if I want an Australian, an American, an English number, because I’m a traveler, I’ll get into the non-travelers shortly as well, because it’s really important to understand this isn’t just about ⁓ global ⁓ communication. This is actually about the Australian communication as well. So it allows you to have multiple numbers in one application and those numbers can you can call out and call in, but it’s not a WhatsApp of the world. It’s we both don’t have to have it. It actually is a telecommunications application allowing you to have your own personal number. And you can name them, identify them, ⁓ and use them that way. People go, well, why do I need that? Well, because one, you may not want to activate your $10 a day or $5 a day international roaming on your phone when you travel, which a lot of people do. So over 90% of people that go traveling, I don’t know, Bali or as you just said, you just could buy a sim car when you’re there. So most people don’t actually activate their phone when they travel. What happens then is they can’t get their OTPs, they can’t get their fraud. Text but you know, suddenly they get ⁓ their credit card gets gypped and then the bank says, ⁓ I’m gonna send you an OTP. Sorry, I’m overseas. I haven’t activated my international roaming. And so Zapme solves that. So you can get that anywhere in the world, 200 countries. You don’t have to pick and choose which one either. So it’s a true global telecommunications application.
speaker-1: And so locally though, if you’re not a traveller, so one of the things and when I got a Zapme number, it was it’s work. Separating yourself from work. ⁓ and and sometimes and I know ⁓ also I’ve got a number of friends who are they have like seven jobs. And actually the younger generation, they are hustlers. They you know they they’ve got their pizza delivery job, they do some Canva work on fiber. Yeah. And it’s a gig economy. Yeah. Right. Because it’s it’s hard to make ends meet at the moment. So it you sort of you’ve got to have a few different jobs to to pay the rent. But it’s separating yourself and your personal life from work and the way that people interact with you ⁓ through work. And so you can have two separate numbers, one for work and but both on the same phone.
speaker-0: Correct. You can have multiple and it even goes into the young economy of ⁓ the the Instagrams and the telegrams and all that as well. You could have multiple numbers and multiple accounts because they’re selling and they’re marketing themselves as well on all those platforms. So you can have multiple numbers connected to those and they’re doing that because they want to A-B test in their marketing as well. So it allows them to do that. ⁓ but the second part about it is personal. A lot of people have Craft businesses or ⁓ you know, they’re ⁓ teachers that don’t want to give their number out to parents. You know, they don’t want to be called all the time. Coaches that actually don’t want to give their number out to parents because they get called all the time about little Johnny and soccer or whatever. ⁓ dating apps, really, really big one. Three hundred million people on dating apps, yeah. And they’re all giving their primary number out. You know, you go on the first date and here’s number. So we’re saying don’t do that. You know, get a second number. So we’re not so
speaker-1: So it’s ⁓ it’s your dating number. ⁓
speaker-0: Hey, don’t have one. I’m married. Yeah. But yes, you could have one. Yeah. we’re not here to take over the telcos, so to speak. We’re actually here to ⁓ work in unison with them and say, Look, we know you have your number and a lot of people have how long have you had your number for? Many, many years?
speaker-1: Yeah yeah. I don’t ever want to give it up. It’s such a good number. Correct.
speaker-0: And a lot of people do. So we’re saying, don’t give it up. Just get a second number for Decker or for whatever else you’re doing. And you don’t have to go and hold two phones to do it or three phones to do it. So we’re here as the alternative, number one, and we’re also here as the global telco, number two. Meaning get on the plane, go to Bali, go to England, go to America, and guess what? You don’t have to turn it on, you don’t have to turn it off. They all work simultaneously. So You’re not telling anyone, ⁓ I’m going ⁓ it doesn’t matter where you are. If they call you locally in Australia on that number, you could be in Africa.
speaker-1: Okay. Well, these things don’t happen overnight. ⁓ and a lot of the conversations that we have in on this podcast are about y the ability to build some of these businesses in the current regulatory environment. So can you tell me because I I’m not fully across the regulatory environment for telcos. Yes. But my understanding is that of course there’s regulations, but to be an innovator within a box of sorts. might be difficult or it might have been easy. Can you tell me d wh how how how have you navigated the telco regulatory environment?
speaker-0: We navigated gl ⁓ country by country actually. So because we’re doing the global rollout and we actually ⁓ we so we’ve got f just so everyone knows, we’ve got ⁓ phone numbers and data and zapmy social and we’re soon to launch B to B, which is a telco on your laptop. ⁓ so we’ll start with numbers. So what we do is we go to each regulatory body in each country. So in Australia it’s ACMA, ⁓ Singapore it’s Agra, and every country has their own acronym for what they’ve got. ⁓ we then look at all their rules and regulations and then in our app we actually build those rules and regulations based on what they want. I know.
speaker-1: So so it’s embedded compliance.
speaker-0: Everything correct. Yeah. So we actually look at it in detail. And they’re they’re fairly detailed. So it’ll say what you can do, what you can’t do, what you’re allowed to store, privacy rules. ⁓ so our whole tech stack of the app is built country by country, which is quite amazing. And for such a small team, ⁓ it’s it’s a big feat. But you know, we have thousands of pricing models and then we have all the regulatory behind that. So for example, if you log into Australia, you may have to provide a certain documentation to get a number. In America, you you might not. ⁓ Sweden you might, England you might not. So different ones have different regulations, but as a small innovative global telco, we do country by country.
speaker-1: You s you probably have to. I know ⁓ the identity required when you’re signing up to the Australian ver the Australian Zapme. Yes. It’s the same as ⁓ s signing up for any sim card, basically. They need driver’s license. Yeah, that’s right. So it’s still ⁓ it it’s the same process. It’s just digital.
speaker-0: Yeah, first rally, correct. We do have a yeah, but what’s exciting for us with Zapme is that we’ve got a bit of a convergence happening. So one thing you can use Zapme with your email or I’ll talk about the ⁓ blockchain or wallet addresses shortly, but you can log in as a single sign on under an email or a blockchain wallet. We haven’t talked numbers yet. So no there’s no regulatory in that side. Then when you go into the social side, then there’s regulatory in that world. Then you go into the telco side and there’s regulatory in that world. Then you go into the data side and there’s regulatory in that world. So we operate all that in the back end to make it seamless. So when you’re actually in there, you’re bouncing between numbers and social and data. ⁓ and soon to be a whole range of other things, payment systems that we’re bringing in. We’re slowly building out the super app, but each one has its own world. ⁓ but by entry into it, you do not need anything to initially start. So it’s you can gloss around and have a little look around. And you’ll never see all the complicated stuff, of course.
speaker-1: No, I didn’t. No, and I n the the only I mean you can still that mean I the only thing that I ⁓ needed was when I wanted to own my new number. but there’s also the social app. Can you can you talk about that the blockchain and digital asset component? Yeah. Because ⁓ we haven’t seen blockchain and digital asset seamlessly ⁓ integrate into an Australian telco or into a a telco. Yeah.
speaker-0: We’re actually ⁓ we’re actually moving our whole ⁓ application ⁓ to a decentralized ⁓ system. So that’s may basically gonna be a decentralized telco, decentralized data, decentralized social. So what’s happening is to give ⁓ the architecture behind it, I guess, is currently you sit on a server server system. ⁓ when we move to the decentralized system, that will then run a combination of going through your network. So It’s hard. I’ve got to talk three different ways. So one is telco. You’ve got your networks around the world. You’ve got your towers around the world. To make a phone call, you have to use those towers or satellites because that’s the infrastructure that’s built for Argentina, for example. So that will then run to a certain point until it hits our tech stack. Then it’ll get moved to a decentralized world where the fragments move ⁓ between the decentralized and the real world. So the web two and the web three world. Does that sort of make sense?
speaker-1: Yeah, it does, but I don’t it is tricky. Yeah. Because you’re the first. Yeah. So when you’re the first, I know that you need to get certain ticks when when you go to operate in Australia and you need to make sure that you’re compliant. Yes. When you build out something like ⁓ you have built out, how does the infrastructure that they’re used to seeing? Yeah, which is your your default Hardwired copper systems that are that are, you know, physical infrastructure and you’re presenting them with digital, decentralized infrastructure. Yep. How it what’s the response?
speaker-0: Yeah, well, we’ll find out shortly ⁓ what the response is. But ⁓ the way we’ve worked it is that we’re moving we want to there’s two parts here as well. You’ve got the decentralized system that makes it work, but you’re still using numbers that are still controlled by governments, for example. Because the numbers I just don’t go and pluck a bunch of numbers out of the you know, you’ve got to get these numbers, governments issue these numbers, they’ve got to sit somewhere and then they’ve got to be used. Where they sit doesn’t really matter, whether it’s with a an AWS or Azure or whoever it ends up being, we’re just gonna situate them on a decentralized system. Yeah. So that sort of separates us. So so it’s not that we’re changing the regulation. We still do the passports or the driver’s license or all the regulation that they have and the KYC and or maybe the privacy laws depending on who it is, but it sits on our decentralized server system. That’s the idea behind it. So we’re doing that something slightly different in that way.
speaker-1: Yeah. So so AWS, Azure, they are trusted. Yes. And so when some of our regulators have a look at those, they they know, okay, the that particular infrastructure we know all about. We’ve seen that before. That’s okay. Yeah. ⁓ but my question is about w when they’re presented with something they’ve not yet seen, you’re probably in the progress of seeing what the outcome of that conversation is.
speaker-0: What’s interesting is that you say they they’re trusted, but look what happened to half the world when it went down, right? Yeah. I mean Amazon is just this tiny little block and everything collapsed behind it. ⁓ we know our local telcos have also had data breaches. So we’ll talk about data breaches in a minute. ⁓ but with ⁓ I mean at the end of the day, things can happen, I guess. Yeah. ⁓ but I do bring it up to like for example, Samsung, you know, ⁓ half the half the world use Samsung. And I I ask everyone, I say, so do you know what operates? Samsung. And they’ll go, Well, Samsung. I’m like, no, it’s Nox, K and O Yeah. But people don’t know that. No. And do they know it’s trusted? No one’s even heard of it. No. So it’s not about that. It’s about brand trust, I think. ⁓ so we’re trying to go down the brand trust, you know, and it’s not all about speed, it’s about trust and about resilience and about making sure it’s up all the time and people can use it. ⁓ so yeah, we’ve got this fine line of people go, Yeah, we trust Amazon, but I’m like, that’s great. Yeah. Use Amazon. ⁓
speaker-1: And I don’t know it’s blockchain either.
speaker-0: But we’re gonna try to move to something completely different and and try ⁓ you know, sell sells at me.
speaker-1: You are disrupting the whole system, really, across the you know, the way that telcos have always operated. And I think you have to. If you’re gonna go completely digital, you you have no choice because you’re not relying on the copper wiring and you know
speaker-0: No, and that infrastructure is laid, you know, it’s like ⁓ people, ⁓ let’s face it, at the end of the day, nearly every website you see, business built on, some of your big ones actually don’t own the core infrastructure like Azure, Amazon, etc. They’re all built on top. So some of the biggest billion dollar businesses in the world don’t even own fundamentally their framework or their foundation. They’re built off somebody else’s. So it’s no different than us. We’re just different because we’re global. So we’re using not only global numbers around the world, global data in 200 countries ⁓ around the world, ⁓ and then decentralized social media, which is the super cool part because once you actually log into Zapme with a single sign on, whether you use your email, Web Two World, or you use your blockchain address on MetaMask Trust and the other five hundred different wallet systems there are, you will then have your own name, your own wallet system, which controls all your social media. And with that social media then it’s fragmented around the r world through the decentralization. So once you log out, it doesn’t sit on a central server, which I think is super exciting.
speaker-1: Yeah, and so I I think the way that we all interact at obviously through phones and through ⁓ different applications. But we’ve also got social media. And I know it seems like you’re like next step is is the community is is the way that we interact across social. So we have I’m using Zapme. So I’ve created my profile on Zapme and and Decca is ⁓ building out our brand. on Zapme. A lot of people have issues with sure the current social media platforms. Yes. And so which is why you’re probably looking at disrupting it. Yes. ⁓ which is fair enough, someone has to do it. Yes. ⁓ but but how are you?
speaker-0: To be frank, we’re only new at it, right? So we’ve Joni just launched it a a couple of months ago. So we’re just growing as we go. So there will always be glitches and always be little conversations that we have with people, but we make it better and better every 24 hours. Every 24 hours you log into Zapme, it just gets better and better. Right. Well that’s on. it is why we’re doing it. ⁓ what we’ve thought is to bring all these different elements of what everyone does every day. They should do stories or reels. They’re on Discord with their sub channels, they’re on TikTok doing their you know, growing their businesses, ⁓ or they just want a place to put everything where it’s a central source of truth. So that’s w how we’ve architectured ZapMe Social is that when you log in, you can see stories from people that just want to post stories, reels from people that just want to post reels. But then we have Zap Zones. Which is what Dekka’s looking at doing. ⁓ and zap zones are where you can create your own community and house all your information. Because what’s happening with all these ⁓ organizations and personal ⁓ profiles and influencers is they say this stuff on all these socials, but then two weeks later I go, ⁓ where did I see that? Did I see it on Instagram or did I see it on there? So what we’ve done with Zap Me Social is centralized that and now it means anything you do out in in all your social media world, you could put links to it within a zap zone, which is you. or your community and then people can go back to that area to find out what you were talking about. Maybe you’re talking about Yeah, like you’re talking about regulation in telco. You can have a sub channel regulation in telco. maybe you’re talking about space and you can have a a section on space. But then maybe you’d go over to Instagram and you’re posting something cool and funky. That link can then sit in zap in your zap zone.
speaker-1: Like an aggregator?
speaker-0: So people know where to go and get it. So it’s like your central source of truth is what we’re trying to build. Yeah. ⁓ so we’re not trying to take over everyone’s social media platforms, ⁓ but we are trying to bring it into one because I always hear people going, ⁓ did you send it to me on Slack? Or did it was it Instagram or was it, you know, and and we get confused on where people are sending us all this information because there’s so much. Whereas what we’re trying to get people to do is say, Well, it’s on my zap zone. Now it could be an influencer zap zone, yeah, or it could be a community zap zone. But it’s there. And so that’s where you go to find that if you topics or
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And and people can also comment and interact as well. Absolutely.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And they can comment, interact on everything unless you decide not to. So you could sort of mute conversations or say you just want to post, you know, the new rules and regulations of a certain thing, then you don’t want to hear anyt anything from anyone. You just leave it as that. ⁓ but if you do want to hear back or you wanna do feedback or fre frequently asked questions or what it is, you can open those up ⁓ and then people can comment, they can use AI within it as well, they can generate images, they can generate conversation. ⁓ so it’s really a community based thing. And what’s exciting about ZAPME Social in that way is that they’re going to keep coming back to it. Because, okay, maybe you talk about a policy and they go, okay, I’m done with the policy. And now they see other stories and reels happening. So they’re engaging with other communities, other people, other influencers all the time. Then when you post again, bang, there you are again. They don’t have to go back to your website and go, wonder what they’re doing these days.
speaker-1: And so as we evolve ⁓ as humans, because some people are no longer wanting to leave a footprint, a digital footprint. Yes. And so they’re no longer commenting. Yes. They’re not liking because they’re creating a public picture of the top sort of person that they are. Yeah. And so how what what are your thoughts on on the way that humans are sort of interacting with socials now?
speaker-0: I think the buzzword right now is this ⁓ freedom of speech, right? Like everyone’s about this freedom of speech and I wanna and then they go, but I don’t want to say it ’cause they know who I am. But maybe if I could not be who I am and then they come up with these funky names, you know, an anonymous or whatever it ends up being. I mean, debating’s been going on for centuries. And really that is freedom of speech. I mean, centuries. You know, I say something, you say something, you know, it goes back and forth. I believe in it. I think it’s really important. So to stop it happening within a social media platform is sort of mute to me in one way. But then there’s this responsibility of how far does it go as well. ⁓ with Zapmi Social, you can actually just have a wallet address and you don’t know if you’re Scott or Amy Rose, for example. You can post and comment from there. But we’re also bringing AI into that, an ethical AI sort of aspect to it. So it’s not that we’re controlling freedom of speech, but we’re certainly going to control things that could get out of hand. For example, as you know, a couple of tweets can Do things to Capitol Hill on July the 6th. So a couple of so we’ll have AI in there that stops certain because what it can do is actually ⁓ it can look at all the posts and everything that’s happening and look at the positive and negative sediment as well. So it’ll get to a point where it says, hey, wait a second. Something’s happening here. This should not go out because it could escalate to something. We’ll bring in AI for that. Yeah. Still freedom of speech, but there’s a crossover. There is a point.
speaker-1: Because it there’s those incitement of Yeah. So that’s that’s front of mind ⁓ at the moment and also for government after a number of ⁓ after the events.
speaker-0: Correct. So we are focused on that. We we’re not sitting there going, hey, it’s a decentralized world and you can say what you like and do what you like. That’s certainly not what Zapme Social’s about. ⁓ it’s certainly about freedom of speech, but we will have certain aspects to control those sort of things getting out of control. ⁓ we’re very focused on that sort of side of it. ⁓ but I but I t just because a government doesn’t like something or a person doesn’t like something, that’s no reason to say, or a a company, a social company that doesn’t like something. That’s no reason to shut them out ’cause a lot of social companies are shutting people out just because they’re saying certain things. But you should be allowed to say certain things. It just is a point where it crosses over. And I think AI can do a lot of that control.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I think AI is is going to become an intermediary across a lot of platforms, actually, not just socials, but also even just the way that we interact with platforms. Yeah, it is. As well. So I I imagine that AI is is just going to become it is ubiquitous. I I had a a a phone call from an AI recently. They said, I’m an AI agent. I’m calling from blah, blah, blah, real estate. ⁓ If you would like a conversation then, you know, but it was just like it was it’s feeling out whether or not I wanted to have a conversation with this real estate agent before so they didn’t waste his time calling me.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. What’s cool about ⁓ Zapme is that we’ll actually have an A on there to stop that as well. An AI in there to stop that as well. So it’ll filter out certain things ⁓ and scam calls. So if you get a call and it goes under a cer certain regimen of a scam ⁓ phone call, ⁓ it’ll just shut it down. So we’re stopping that for people as well. ⁓
speaker-1: Is that already is that something that’s in place for traditional
speaker-0: Sure, they must have it. And if they don’t, I don’t know who’s doing it at the moment, ⁓ but we certainly want to bring it in.
speaker-1: Yeah, because I know that ⁓ part of the scam life cycle is obviously text messages and click this and do this and one thing leads to another. ⁓
speaker-0: Very regulated on that by the way. Yeah. So we on our phone number side of things, that whole SMS, it’s called ten D L C in America and it’s it’s a combination. ⁓ we’re very regulated on that. So we have to run campaigns based around it. So they know exactly our numbers, what’s happening around, who gets what, and as soon as we see any sort of spam text message go out, ⁓ they get shut down.
speaker-1: The the phone number itself gets shut down? ⁓ my goodness. So that’s a requirement of a telco in Australia.
speaker-0: Yep, we control that completely. Australia. We ⁓ Australia and America and and different countries. In America it’s called ten DLC in Australia it’s called something else. So we do that as well.
speaker-1: There are certain groups within other countries who contact Australians ⁓ from their own local telco. Yes. And their local telco doesn’t report like we do. However, some local telcos do report back to Australian telcos and let them know that this they flag
speaker-0: things we do do that. Yes, correct. Yeah. So if it’s a message that was originated by our number that went through ATT or whoever it may be, ⁓ and it came to an Australian, then yes, that we collaborate on that. Yeah. ⁓ based if it’s a scam or not. So yeah. So there’s an element of that we are we’re decentralizing the social world and we’re certainly freedom of speech in that. But on the other side with numbers, it is your identifier. And it’s a powerful identifier. It is everything it’s everything to you. I mean someone could sim swap you, they could ⁓ port your number, they can do all sorts and then they control your banking, your social and the whole lot. So I i I don’t think people really understand how powerful their number is and how dangerous their number is at the same time.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I mean I was worried ⁓ I lost my WhatsApp, was hacked, compromised, lost and I it took a long time to get it back. Yeah. ⁓ but I did, but I’d o I lost everything, all my messages and stuff for the whole history of ever having WhatsApp, which was which was devastating. But they ca it’s absolutely possible. And I I think that ⁓ we do take for granted that everything that we you know, our numbers and our Communication platforms will exist until the end of time. But in in fact, all of them can be taken.
speaker-0: And as soon as you don’t have it, which we didn’t when we traveled overseas, we realize the pain that you’re in. Because a lot of companies and banks and that don’t send a ⁓ in an OTP to emails. They just don’t. ⁓ I went to pay a ⁓ an account in Singapore ⁓ last week with my credit card and sorry, you’re not a cred a Singaporean resident. And I’m like, What does that mean? And said, No, we can’t do if you give us your phone number, we can do it that way. I went so then I had to give them my phone and to send me an O D P to then give them the card. I thought, so my phone number again was the identifier. Yeah. And so yes, you’re a real person. So they didn’t do it via email. They didn’t do it via ⁓ Google authenticator. It’s it’s a phone number. So I a lot of people feel like phone numbers are gonna disappear and they’re just not. Yeah. They’re just not. I think they’re getting more and more actually.
speaker-1: Yeah, I don’t think I ever envisaged them disappearing, but some people just ⁓ because the ⁓ the world is changing so quickly. Yeah.
speaker-0: When I say that I’ll pre I’ll ⁓ sort of preface it to they say look we don’t need a phone number until they do. So if you look at people’s phone calls now, there’s probably four, five, maybe ten phone calls a day if that, you know. Whereas on social messaging, message, message, message, so they go, I don’t really need a phone number. But they really do, ’cause they’ve still got bank accounts and they’ve still got all their things. Yeah. They just don’t use it as much. But it’s for your core functionality now. Yeah. Whereas years ago your phone would be listed, you’d be calling people all day long. Yeah. Whereas now it’s shorter. But it’s your core, it’s your banking, it’s your ATP, it’s your fraud, it’s your communication. Whereas it’s not just, Hey, how are you, Amy Rose? That’s social.
speaker-1: That’s why it’s infrastructure. Yep. And yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we’ll wrap up. I I wanna know what your plans are. Like you it sounds like you’ve innovated the hell out of telco. Yes. And social platforms. Yes. What’s what’s next?
speaker-0: So we’ve got four core pillars at the beginning, and then we’ll move on to our fifth. Our first one is the phone numbers, which we’ve talked about, and we’ll just keep out keep on rolling out globally. So we’ve got a certain amount of countries which is large, and we’ll keep rolling that out further and further with no international fees, no international roaming, and no international costs. Second one is data plans 200 countries, that’s solid and done. ZapMe Social. So this is where things are gonna get really interesting. Right now, we operate Zap zones, so you can have your own community and you can have your own ⁓ area for yourself. We’re bringing out Zap Live, which will be ⁓ live AMAs, live podcasting. You can rate basically control your own community on a ⁓ digital format. ⁓ and then we’ll be bringing out ⁓ predictions model and a whole bunch of other gamification stuff for communication between parties, two parties. It’s all about communication, zap me. And then the fourth ⁓ pillar is B2B. And that allows you to have a telco on your laptop, meaning that you can log in and issue phone numbers and data to anyone you know, or your employees. So if you have people traveling to America or ⁓ you want to give them an extra number in Australia or you’ve got fifteen members in DECA that you want to number, you can sit there and literally issue yourself.
speaker-1: Is that like a telco reseller?
speaker-0: Yeah. So it’s a we it basically is. But it’s reselling our numbers. Yeah. And our data. Okay. And our chat system and our social. So it’s all in one dashboard. So you control it completely. So you’ve got this whole zap me on a phone and now it’s on a laptop, but you get full control over it. Whereas you can’t log in and do that with any other telecommunications company in the world currently.
speaker-1: I didn’t think about that. So why can’t you?
speaker-0: They don’t offer it. We do. So that that’ll be rolled out. It’s actually finished. We will be rolling it out very soon. ⁓ so you can go in there and control that, which is good. And then we’ll move into what ⁓ the back end of that, all these other cool stuff that will happen. It because we’ve done the decentralization and because we’ve provided this single sign-on allowing you to have a wallet system in the background, we’ll obviously move into payments ⁓ very
speaker-1: Obviously move into payments.
speaker-0: Move into payments. It’s about borderless communication and borderless payments. At the end of the day, you know, they’re they’re both l basically both the same. It’s a parcel of information or it’s a parcel of value. And ⁓ they go hand in hand together as far as I’m concerned. ⁓ so we’re gonna use those those wallet addresses and that back end. People in the web too well won’t even know by the way, they’ll just go, ⁓ I want to move money around, but it’s operating off the blockchain. Yeah, so it’s super exciting to do that. The teams ⁓ can’t wait to get their hands on that one.
speaker-1: ⁓ my goodness. Yeah, well, I mean it seems inevitable and a natural progression, but it’s a handful. It’s a lot of work. It is.
speaker-0: It is it is a lot of work. And there was it’s interesting that ⁓ you know, you go into these series A’s which we’re in now. you you’re growing the brand, you’re growing the community, you’re trying to not break stuff, but you’re trying to make it all work at the same time. You know, and it’s like governments when they when they’re doing their regulation, it’s it’s like we have to follow those regulations. We think we’re following them right. We hope we are. I mean we do our best to, but it’d be great if government have some sort of better system. ⁓ that allows us to be able to ⁓ act ⁓ API for want of a better word into it and go, yes, we’re up to date. That would be amaz it would be amazing into compliance. Yeah, can you imagine? Because at the end of the Australia, what what is it? I don’t know, two million people in government, 10% of our population, 14 federal departments, over 300 private departments, thousands of of yeah, th thro over 300 state departments within it. And then thousands of ⁓ documents within those departments. They can’t communicate that together. It it’s impossi I feel sorry for them actually. It’s impossible to do that. So, you know, that shadow AI sort of concept behind it, if they could somehow pull that together and we could API into that to then grab the real up to date stuff, which could be up to date by the minute, really. As soon as it was lodged, it could ⁓ it could drag in. But until then we use that we have to use the ⁓ the external entrepreneurial companies like Claude and all the other ones that are out there. ⁓ yeah, until until The day comes where they they build build it in for us. But right now all you can do is read it. You can’t actually API into it. And I I think they could do it. It’s ⁓ but it would take an AI to do it ’cause there’s no way all those departments and all those people could actually talk together and get that right. But I think it could feed through ⁓ to a digital economy based around your identity again, based around your number. ⁓ is my thoughts.
speaker-1: ⁓ my goodness, this is going you’ve got your hands full. Thank you for coming on the show.
speaker-0: Thank you very much. Yeah, you too. Thanks again.
speaker-1: Digital, where policy meets innovation. Stay curious, stay inspired, and be part of the movement Building Australia’s next economy. The future is happening now. See you in the next episode.